12:00:49 From Gina Solares : Good morning from foggy San Francisco! 12:01:20 From Madison Chartier : Good morning! (Sunny here in Oklahoma!) 12:01:50 From Andrew Senior : Hello from Montreal! 12:01:51 From Christa Strickler : Greetings from the cloudy Chicago suburbs! 12:01:57 From Pete Steadman : Hello from Bloomington-Normal, Illinois 12:01:58 From Tyler Rogers : Hello from San Diego! 12:01:59 From Jim Hahn : Happy Wednesday! (From Champaign, IL) but working for Penn. :) 12:02:00 From Ian Kinzler : Good morning from LA! 12:02:00 From Robin Desmeules : Hello from Montreal! 12:02:01 From Diane Shaw : Hi, it's a pretty early fall day (sunny, warm) in northern Virginia 12:02:02 From Susan R. : Happy lunchtime from Boston, where it was stormy, but the sun just came out! 12:02:02 From Justine Withers : Good morning from three blocks from Gina Solares' house! 12:02:03 From P Dragon : Sunny and 70 in Eastern NC :) 12:02:05 From Amy Eoff - Texas State University : Good morning! Fall has arrived in the heart of Texas! 12:02:07 From Timothy Ryan Mendenhall (he/him) : Greetings from sunny NYC! 12:02:13 From Joy Panigabutra-Roberts : Good afternoon from Knoxville, TN. 12:02:16 From Mary Aycock (Texas State University) : Hello from central Texas! 12:02:17 From Sarah Osborne Bender (she/her) : Good afternoon from the East Building of the National Gallery of Art, Washington D.C. 12:02:22 From detlink : Beautiful day here in Baltimore 12:02:23 From Beth Shoemaker : Fall has arrived blissfully early here in Atlanta. 12:02:27 From Joseph Angelo : Good morning from northern New Mexico! 12:02:31 From Elena Sillitti : Good (late) afternoon from Florence (Italy)! 12:02:38 From greta de : Greetings from Castro Valley CA 12:02:39 From Alla Roylance : Greetings from NYU, NYC. 12:02:40 From Meredith : Fall is also here in Knoxville TN Beth! So exciting. 12:02:42 From May Chan : Hello from Toronto 12:02:52 From Alex Vallejo : Hello from Philadelphia (where good things happen)! 12:03:24 From Alessandra Moi : Greetings from Milan (Italy)! 12:03:39 From Kelli Babcock : Hi from Toronto! 12:03:56 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : hi from NYC~ I didn't even realize the sun had come out until @Timothy Ryan Mendenhall said so, ha! 12:04:34 From hilary thorsen : Hi everyone from San Jose, Calif.! 12:05:08 From Christine Fernsebner Eslao To Michelle M. Durocher(Privately) : I threw in some provisional answers in the spreadsheet this morning. There’s definitely interesting stuff we’ll want to connect about, in others’ entries 12:05:10 From Kerri Pfister : Hi from NYC 12:05:25 From Christine Fernsebner Eslao : Hello from mid-coast Maine! No sunshine here. 12:06:54 From hilary thorsen : Institutional spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KPJu-EEkluBExLNHvRKM4Rxij49X1SbhKTFIIG0Mmfg/edit#gid=0 12:09:06 From hilary thorsen : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_PCC_Wikidata_Pilot/Pilot_Resources 12:14:37 From David Erlandson : The example tables were helpful, especially when you're getting used to Wiki's markup system. 12:18:08 From Matthew Haugen : I made Columbia’s project page as a sub-sub-page under “Participants.” It looks like we were the only ones who did it that way. Does it matter? Should we move it, to be a subpage of the main project page instead? https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_PCC_Wikidata_Pilot/Participants/Columbia_University_Libraries 12:18:16 From Mairelys (she/ella) : We already have a project page for our library (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_IUPUI_University_Library) which I linked to from the participants’ list. Is that sufficient for this purpose or do you need me to create a new project page for this pilot? 12:18:50 From Susan R. : Great presentation — thanks, Hilary! 12:20:04 From Mairelys (she/ella) : Ok, thanks! 12:20:12 From Crystal Clements : Is it okay that our page has multiple sub-pages of its own? 12:20:22 From Crystal Clements : Thanks! 12:20:53 From Crystal Clements : How do you delete a page? 12:21:16 From Dean Seeman : Really helpful presentation and documentation: thanks Hilary! 12:21:52 From hilary thorsen : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions 12:22:29 From Crystal Clements : Oh, great! That's what happened I gave something the wrong title. 12:22:37 From Crystal Clements : Thank you Hilary :) 12:23:34 From hilary thorsen : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_PCC_Wikidata_Pilot/Pilot_Resources 12:25:30 From Christine Fernsebner Eslao : +1: Clifford Anderson’s is the user page I tried to emulate in mine, though mine is more sparse. 12:27:18 From Chat Monitor : I see that one of the user pages referenced getting in touch over the person's "Talk page"? What is that and how is it used in the community? 12:27:52 From Adam Schiff : Yes, it would be great to have a session on how to talk 12:28:11 From Joy Panigabutra-Roberts : +1 12:28:28 From Crystal Clements : +1 12:28:52 From Christine Fernsebner Eslao : +1 12:29:00 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : oh I really appreciate the documentation of how to talk and such. 12:29:55 From P Dragon : Do they get notified that someone has written on their talk page? Will they see it automatically? 12:30:01 From Adam Schiff : Especially want to know tips for easily signing your name to a comment you make. I always copy someone else's and then change it to my name and the time of the comment. 12:30:15 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : ~~~~ will sign~ 12:30:22 From David Erlandson : Blue Rasberry is everywhere. 12:30:25 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : whoops "will sign!" 12:30:36 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : so just type: 12:30:45 From Jeannette Ho : Could you share the link on communication in Wikidata (where the link to the talk pages appears)? 12:30:46 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : I would love to collaborate with you on GLAM institutions ~~~~ 12:30:58 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : and then it signs it 12:31:45 From Adam Schiff : Oh wow, that is great!! Thank you, will make things so much simpler knowing this. 12:31:53 From Robin Desmeules : thank you Ruth! 12:32:11 From Christine Fernsebner Eslao : David: Blue Raberry is Lane Rasberry, who does data science and Wikimedian-in-residence work at UVA. He’s super helpful and generous with his time. https://datascience.virginia.edu/people/lane-rasberry/profile 12:32:13 From hilary thorsen : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Linked_Data_for_Production/Practical_Wikidata_for_Librarians/Communication 12:38:01 From Joy Panigabutra-Roberts : Thanks, Christine! For David: Blue Rasberry’s info. And to Hilary’s presentation too! 12:39:43 From Susan R. : +1 for common sense! 12:41:09 From Adam Schiff : If someone consistently reverts your edit and you disagree with that, what are the next steps? 12:42:24 From David Erlandson : You'll get a bulletpoint reminder of inclusion criteria when you are on the Create a New Item page. 12:43:37 From Jeannette Ho : If needed something to be a reference, is that also fulfill a structural need? 12:44:04 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : @jeanette you mean adding a book or database? 12:44:04 From Adam Schiff : I did that for the "named after" property for some of our departments. Some of them are just rich donors that might not otherwise have met notability requirements. 12:44:22 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : That's generally ok -- I tend not to put in books for citations because books are very complex 12:44:25 From hilary thorsen : @Adam there’s an administrators’ noticeboard where you could start a discussion involving administrators: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Administrators%27_noticeboard 12:44:42 From Adam Schiff : @Hilary Thanks! 12:44:59 From Jeannette Ho : I mean if you had a directory or other source you wanted to add as a reference, but it is not on Wikidata. 12:45:11 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : yes, you would add it as whatever type of item it is 12:45:24 From Adam Schiff : Then you should be able to create an item for that source Jeannette. 12:45:29 From hilary thorsen : @Adam I would probably try starting a discussion with the other user on their talk page, but if that didn’t resolve things then go to that administrator discussion board 12:45:33 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : re: dignity of living people -- one of my friends tweeted about it being their birthday -- it then ended up in their wikidata policy … which I checked with them and we had removed 12:45:39 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : wikidata record* 12:45:44 From Jeannette Ho : Then the answer is that it does meet a structural need. 12:46:25 From John Mark Ockerbloom : List of Wikidata properties that may violate privacy: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Properties/Wikidata_properties_that_may_violate_privacy Includes birth dates. 12:47:21 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : a good example of medical condition -- I read a rolling stone interview w/a celeb about her medical condition. since it was a major topic and she was trying to raise awareness.... it was both a good reason to add + link to the Rolling Stone article 12:47:23 From Meredith : What are the thoughts on including sex or gender for a living person? Most personal names I come across include this. I could see this being useful for queries 12:47:51 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : a lot of times it's implied as required. I have mixed feelings. 12:47:57 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : @Jeannette Ho, is the directory online? If so, you can also used "referenced URL" in the references or use the "described at URL" property 12:48:07 From Adam Schiff : sex or gender is required for persons but we put in our application profile that it can be left out if not known 12:48:42 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : I've seen mixed cases of how people reference online directories and had some of my edits reverted by editors who had a preference towards "described at URL" 12:49:06 From Jeannette Ho : It is online, but it has private info (addresses) so I don't want to supply the URL. But I was hesitant to add it in Wikidata since I wasn't sure it was significant enough to add as an item. 12:49:23 From Adam Schiff : Link to our faculty application profile: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_PCC_Wikidata_Pilot/University_of_Washington/Application_Profiles/Faculty_and_Staff 12:49:41 From John Mark Ockerbloom : My Wikidata page includes one, as “based on heuristic: deduced from given name” I do disclose my gender online (he/him) but it still felt weird to see it there from an auto-inference when I didn’t supply it to WD.) 12:49:55 From Meredith Hale : Thanks Adam! 12:49:57 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : I put in the institutional spreadsheet, we would be interested in some critical coverage of using "sex and gender" and "ethnic group," especially with living people 12:51:02 From Susan R. : That was great — thanks, Lori! Also, the chat was really illuminating! 12:51:02 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : also if a person is a transgender woman, you might choose to use "woman" rather than designate that she's a "transgender woman" (which is a whole messy differentiation concept while also like ethnicity could be useful for identifying people) 12:51:07 From Paul Burley : Note/question on vandalism: it's not common in Wikidata in my experience, but the item for Emmett Till was vandalized again. Should I request this page be auto-protected, or just request that more folks add it to their watch list? 12:51:08 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : I know that Os Keyes spoke to this topic at WikidataCon: keynote_questioning_wikidata 12:51:11 From Paul Burley : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q506878 12:51:15 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : oops! https://media.ccc.de/v/wikidatacon2019-15-keynote_questioning_wikidata 12:51:36 From Meredith Hale : Thanks so much Karly! 12:51:57 From Adam Schiff : I have all my edited items on Watchlist so I can see what changes are being made 12:52:13 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : +1 Ruth's mention of the messiness of trans genders in Wikidata 12:52:30 From David Erlandson : Just to note you can add something to your watchlist by using the star in the upper right corner (near the search box.) 12:53:13 From Matthew Haugen (he/him) : Adam Schiff and I were on the PCC task group about Gender in MARC authority records. 12:53:32 From John Mark Ockerbloom : Note also on autobiography: unlike on Wikipedia, you *can* edit your own page once it’s been created by someone else. At least one of my property values is incorrect (and not supported by the cited reference), so I’m assuming I can just remove it? 12:53:40 From hilary thorsen : The Wikidata property page for sex or gender has some discussion: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property_talk:P21 12:54:07 From Crystal Clements : There are a number of properties we want to use, such as "student of", with property constraints that require the use of "sex/gender" property and when we don't know someone's sex or gender it doesn't make sense to require the property rather than something like "instance of human" 12:54:23 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : note: error messages mean nothing! 12:54:25 From Stephen S Hearn : if inclusion in a project implies a sensitive aspect (e.g., implies a person's race), does referencing the project in that person's description become a problem? 12:54:26 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : (this is not quite true) 12:54:39 From Jiyun Jung : If you scroll down to "Constraints" on the property page itself, you can view the options: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P21 12:54:40 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : (but error messages mean error messages -- you can stil lsave it) 12:54:57 From Matthew Haugen (he/him) : I agree with what Adam said. 12:55:14 From f-piscitelli : Sometimes it helps if it's not clear. 12:55:15 From Lori Robare : Yes, I think of it as using common sense when I ignore an error message that doesn't make sense. 12:55:20 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : also worth noting Wikidata doesn't have a "race" property, it is "ethnic group," which doesn't 1:1 align with contemporary understanding of race 12:55:21 From Susan R. : Although it will be available via the recording, I’m definitely using the Save Chat function in the case of this chat!!! 12:55:30 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : This is what I was going to share in the meeting: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Penn_State_Libraries/External_IDs_Through_VIAF 12:55:59 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : It was made by Ken Robinson, the co-lead on the PCC project at Penn State 12:56:03 From Adam Schiff : The other thing to note is once your item is added, anyone else can edit it, so even if you leave gender out, it may get added later on by someone 12:56:35 From Meredith Hale : Definitely Adam 12:56:50 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : yes, I've seen some living people ask that Wikidata develop a protocol to ask people not to add gender for them 12:56:50 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : Anyway it's very cataloger-focused and so I think it might be really good for people in this group to find more identifiers. There are scripts and such, but this is a good way tfor folks to get started 12:56:56 From hilary thorsen : @Ruth—that is a great table! 12:57:00 From John Mark Ockerbloom : Note that requirements are themselves subject to discussion and revision. I’ve seen requirements added to properties over time, and some later withdrawn (e.g. if something had an ISSN, a flag was recently raised if it didn’t also have a “country of origin”. Then someone added a flag to also require “editor in chief”, but that was gone by the end of the day.) These things can be discussed. 12:57:31 From Jiyun Jung : If it's known that there are uncertainties re: gender designation, I'd recommend also proactively flagging this in a note on the item talk page about it 12:57:58 From Susan R. : Very helpful work! 12:58:05 From Adam Schiff : I love that VIAF script that adds additional IDs 12:59:41 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : I'm afraid I have to run to another meeting 12:59:45 From RUTH KITCHIN TILLMAN : see y'all 12:59:47 From John Mark Ockerbloom : have to go to another meeting; thanks for this useful discussion! 12:59:56 From Adam Schiff : Would love to have a discussion of mapping to LCSH and other subject/genre/etc. vocabularies, esp when the mapping isn't exact match 13:00:11 From May Chan : thank you for this meeting .... this is exactly what i need to keep the momentum going 13:01:04 From Christa Strickler : +1 to Adam Schiff 13:02:12 From Gina Solares : Thanks, all! 13:02:21 From Susan R. : Amazing chat! 13:02:23 From Chris R : Thank you kindly to the speakers today 13:02:30 From Nerissa Lindsey : Thanks 13:02:39 From P Dragon : Thanks to all 13:02:41 From Joseph Angelo : Thank you! 13:02:43 From Joy Panigabutra-Roberts : Thank you All 13:02:43 From Madison Chartier : Thank you! 13:02:44 From Robin Desmeules : thank you! 13:02:44 From Patrick Flanigan : Thanks 13:02:45 From David Erlandson : Thanks! 13:02:45 From Pete Steadman : thank you! 13:02:46 From Xiaoli : thank you! 13:02:47 From EBurnand : Thank you1 13:02:47 From Karly Wildenhaus (Frick Art Reference Library) : thank you! 13:02:51 From Anna Dysert, Ms. : Thank you all! 13:02:52 From Allison T : Thanks! 13:02:56 From f-piscitelli : Thanks!